Nock path at release

Discussion in 'Methodology, Tuning, Coaching etc.' started by frustratatosk, Aug 30, 2014.

  1. Jerry Tee

    Jerry Tee New Member

    I do not believe that a release aid shot recurve will flex the arrow like fingershot recurve . I think it will flex the arrow like a release aid shot compound. Just as a finger shot compound will flex the arrow like a finger shot recurve .
     
  2. blakey

    blakey New Member

    I'm not quite sure that I ever believe anything till I've tried it for myself, and then I'm never sure if what I do is applicable generally. What I do know is that I can finger shoot a RH barebow compound with a plunger and a Spig rest both right handed or left handed with no noticeable difference in arrow behaviour, and last year I shot a Hoyt Spectra fingers off a tongue rest with no plunger. So as far as I am concerned there is a huge difference between recurve and compound shot with fingers. I am intrigued by Joe's analysis, because it seems to explain something to me that I was at a loss to. Whether my interpretation is correct or not is another thing. But I am now excited to try my barebow with a release aid. :)
     
  3. Rik

    Rik New Member

    Probably not exactly the same. It will depend on the spec of the arrow, and the force profile I would think.
    A recurve shot arrow may buckle where a compound shot one would not.
    Likewise, a finger shot compound may cause a lot less buckling than a finger shot recurve (though with the same characteristics). Note the hedging. "May" because we would really need to see experimental results. Blackboard modelling like this probably isn't sufficient. :)
     
  4. Jerry Tee

    Jerry Tee New Member

    I think that some accurate deductions can be made from the point of impact of arrows shot from a recurve bow with a release aid and then witha tab. The recurve would besetup for figer loose . The effect of the string movment around the fingers moving the rear of the arrow to the left and,thus allowing the front of the arrow to compress the button should mean that the arrow impacts slightly to the right ( right handed archer). With neither of those things happening on a release aid arrow I expect the arrow to go left.. I will let you know what happens.
     
  5. geoffretired

    geoffretired New Member

    Jerry, When the string moves left to get round the fingers, the front presses on the button.... but does that mean arrows go right?
    In many cases the arrow bends and moves the shaft to the right, clearing the button by 1/4" or so.
    I think the bending arrow and the string moving side to side, sets up a situation where the arrow goes left or right depending on spine.
    With a release aid the string doesn't move side to side so much and the arrow doesn't bend much either. So arrows fly closer to straight ahead. I know my arrows went right with the release aid compared to left with fingers.
     
  6. Jerry Tee

    Jerry Tee New Member

    Tuned bow , arrows go straight, initial conditions set button so that the point of the arrow is to the left of center not straight as you assumed. Shoot with a release aid no flex and the arrow goes where it is pointed to the left. Yes release aid shot arrows went left of finger shot arrows.
     
  7. geoffretired

    geoffretired New Member

    Hi Jerry.
    I need to sort out my lefts from my rights.
    The above should say. " In many cases the arrow bends and moves the shaft to the left, clearing the button by 1/4" or so."
     
  8. blakey

    blakey New Member

    If arrows are truly centre shot, not slightly left of centre on the button, would I be right in assuming they would go straight with a release aid? Trying to make sense of what I thought Joe was saying?
     
  9. blakey

    blakey New Member

    B
    Hi Geoff, are your thoughts still the same about this? Cheers
     
  10. geoffretired

    geoffretired New Member

    Hi Blakey, My thinking is still about the same. I am likening it to G forces experienced by fighter pilots etc.
    I can't do the maths involved, so I am working from guesswork ,if that makes sense.
    I am trying to imagine two arrows being launched, one from each bow type.
    I am trying to imagine the g force on each arrow by thinking about the increase in force being applied as the shot progresses.
    With recurve the force goes from 0 to 40lb ish in the first 1"( let's say)
    That is as big as it gets as the force from the bow is decreasing from then on.
    On compound the first 1" is being pushed by a force of about 10lb, the second one perhaps 20lb( an increase of only 10lb) The third by 30lb... another increase of 10lb.
    By the time peak weight is reached the g force experienced has built up gradually from zero to about 10lb and remained at that level.
    I see this as the difference between hitting a golf ball with a golf club; compared to launching it with one of those ball throwing handles that dog walkers use.
     
  11. blakey

    blakey New Member

    Thanks for that Geoff, that's good. Instant application of force on a recurve, and a gradual increase on a compound. That really helps with my efforts to understand buckling. I think and hope it's going to help my tune for stringwalking. Cheers. :)
     
  12. geoffretired

    geoffretired New Member

    Hi Blakey, and Jerry.
    I have just remembered something that I have been forgetting in recent posts.
    I think, in a nutshell, it means that recurve bows buckle arrows because of the sudden application of force from the fully drawn string at release. Fingers and release aids will make small differences to the buckling.
    Compounds don't buckle arrows much because there is no sudden application of force to a stationery arrow. The release by fingers or release aid will affect how they fly a little.
     
  13. joetapley

    joetapley New Member

    A point to bear in mind is that the initial "G" force on the arrow nock is always less than the static draw force load. If they were equal then by definition they would cancel out and the arrow wouldn't move :) .

    [​IMG]

    The static draw force curve is curve "F" in the above graph (peak draw weight ~124N). The force on the arrow nock is curve "E". The initial force on the arrow is around 110N, significantly lower.
     
  14. geoffretired

    geoffretired New Member

    Heehhee for simplicity.... I might have to try sorting that out when my mind is at peace!
     
  15. blakey

    blakey New Member

    I really wish I could understand this. I can feel my parameters being stretched. :)
     
  16. geoffretired

    geoffretired New Member

    I think your parameters are more likely to get buckled. It's to do with the stresses being applied.
     
  17. Rik

    Rik New Member

    Reduce the stress, make your parameters wider...
     
  18. geoffretired

    geoffretired New Member

    Ahh, but doesn't area under the graph stay the same?
     
  19. blakey

    blakey New Member

    That's very good. :)
     
  20. frustratatosk

    frustratatosk New Member

    Whoopee! Tapatalk is working again on the forum. Good to be back - only marginally older and wiser :)
     

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